Welcome everybody to episode 14 of the Making Paper Show. This is your host Osman Hameed in the beautiful Ocean Ridge Studios and beautiful amazing Toronto, Canada. The weather is getting better. The city is getting warm Honestly Toronto by far is the most beautiful city in North America in the summer So maybe not in the winter guys don't visit in the winter We have snow up to our knees but in the summer by far The most beautiful city, amazing food, amazing people, all the amazing things. So please come on by today. We're talking about, you guessed it, paper and something really important about paper. So everybody in North America, when we think about the paper industry, what do you think about? We think about paper mills. We think about converters and distributors in Canada or North America who are, you know, cutting paper to size. We think about distributors who are distributing the paper. And then we think about the end user, like a printer. Um, we think about the actual consumer who is writing on it. And that's pretty much it, right? We stay within our bubble. You know, I've traveled to the States and I talked, I've talked to so many people and I always say, Hey, so what are you doing this summer? Are you going on a vacation? And everybody else says, yeah, yeah, I'm going to go. I'm going to Florida next year. Where are you going? Oh, I'm going to Las Vegas. I'm going to go to Phoenix, right? Pretty much people in the U. S. They vacation in the U. S. And I have so many friends in the States They don't leave the United States I get it, it's a very big, big, you know, country Um, like you know how Europe has so many countries I think each state is almost a country in the United States But guys, there's a whole world out there Americans, this is for you and Canadians, but nonetheless, there's a whole world out there and a whole world of opportunities, especially in the paper industry that are not being fully utilized because we're so focused on our own circle. We forget that there is paper that we are throwing in the landfill here that somewhere else would have a whole new opportunity. So you have your drive van or your typical trucks, your 53 foot trucks. You see those everywhere, but then on occasion you'll see these metal looking boxes being pulled by trucks. So you guys want to know the real difference? The real difference is that these are sea containers, which means if you ever see a metal box being pulled by a truck, it could be a 40 foot, it could be a 20 foot. There could also be really long ones that are 53 foot, but those are typically for trucking. So the 40 foot ones and 20 foot ones, these are all going to go on a really big cargo ship. And they're going to be sent all over the world. It could be, you know, any destination really. So the point stands is that these containers are used to ship and receive material internationally. The problem is I feel when it comes to the paper industry. We don't do this enough. We do it for wastepaper. We do it for our OCC or our SOP, but there are many grades where we are not fully utilizing the international market. So one thing we really proud ourselves at Ocean Ridge is that we help to find creative solutions. You'll see that, that, that. all over all of our website, all of our LinkedIn. We look to find creative solutions for your problems and for finding, you know, those pockets of creativity where we can make better value for material that would typically be landfill about, right? I always give the example of printed craft liner. So printed craft liner is craft liner that is one side printed. Imagine like a, um, a box of like Nestle chocolate, like imagine like a KitKat box, like a box of it. You don't like you for Halloween. You buy like boxes for chocolate. Imagine that that that's craft liner. Okay. So imagine one side is printed. It's a very heavy print. So it says like Snickers on it or KitKat or whatever. And on the inside, it's a brown box. So what happens is. is that typically when these printers or manufacturers, they make mistakes. It could be a mistake as, Hey, the printing was off, the ink was off, or maybe, you know, Nestle says, Hey, or we don't want, you know, this logo. And then we want to change the logo. And these machines are moving so fast. You have all this material left over. Now you have this garbage material. Now, typically what happens to print a craft liner? Typically speaking, it only goes to the MRF for landfill, right? And the only option is you can, you can sort of build it and maybe some mill will be happy to use it, but there's so much heavy ink on it. It doesn't pop that well. It might have a UV coating on it. There's so many coatings on it. You don't want to use it. And a lot of times it's landfill down. Now printed craft gets a bad rep for that reason. But did you know that same material, if exported overseas to Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, um, these, I would say primarily these countries, there are a few more that really specialize in it. These countries, what they'll do is they'll flip that paper over and they'll give it a new life, right? And it'll be used to make new boxes. Because, you know, um, you know what a Jannah cap is, Pakistan? You know, in Jannah caps, Jannah caps are those fancy, like, triangle caps. Like if you ever open a Jannah cap, you'll find newspaper inside. Yes I've Actually seen that before Right? You'll find, if you go overseas, you'll find material that like, you open it and there's like a different print on the inside. But guys, that's, that's the real creativity, isn't it? That's the beauty of it. One material in North America is going to go in the landfill. It's just going to rot and it's going to be never be used again. And you're not going to get money out of it. It's already wasted. You're gonna sell it for pennies on the dollar or you use a container, load it, go across the ocean, it arrives overseas, and boom, you have a whole new life, you know, and not just does it get a new life, you're feeling good about yourself, at the end of the day, money is important, no good thing happens, you know, without having some personal incentive. There is more money to be made, more value to be made by exporting materials overseas, because that material is made for reuse, will always trump when it's used for repulping, almost always, right? So that is the beauty of export. And that's what we love doing. You know, domestic is great. I'm sure the pricing sometimes is green domestic, I get it, better market, bigger market. But there's a big opportunity for export that I think you guys cannot overlook. And it's something you guys should try to do. You know, make and build part of your portfolio I think paper gets a really bad rep that, hey, we're wasting the trees, blah, blah, blah. Like paper by nature, like it's, it's very much responsible forestry, especially in North America and Europe, because for every one tree, they cut, they like plant multiples of trees and the common tree and they'll plant two or three trees. Right. Um, and then they'll let that forest grow and then they'll process the next forest and then they'll grow it again. There's a responsible forestry. That's the first thing. Second thing is, is that If you have a good recycling program in place, which means like, for example, we're in Canada, so in Canada, in Toronto area, each city in this municipality, they have a very good recycling program, which means all of your office waste, your paper from your homes, it's gonna be recycled, right? Paper can be used four or five times, sometimes even more, right? Before the fibers break down, that it can't be used again, and even still, once they break down, it can become compost. And be used as, you know, like as a way to fertilize new trees and new plants. So paper is renewable out of them. You got to have that, that guilt associated with paper needs to go away. The guilt actually comes when paper is being used once and just tossed in the garbage. But if given multiple lives, I don't think these, the beauty of like the feeling of writing on a piece of paper will never be the tablets. These tablets will never win. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Apple pen tried and sure. It's great, but paper will always have its home. It just, there's a certain beauty like books. People said 30 years ago, books are done. Phones are coming. Computers are coming. Barnes and Noble is still here. Indigo is still here. You know, all the books are still here. People still launch books. Audio books are there. Everything's there. Tablets are there. iPads are there. My book still sells because there's a physical feeling of it that I think that's almost pretty universal. Anyway guys, there's a lot more to paper industry than just writing paper. Like packaging, Amazon boxes, you know, your blister boxes. There's so much more to it. Point being is paper industry, super cool, super important. That was episode 13. That's a wrap. We got 14. I always do that. We start with, I was minus one in the end, right? That's a wrap. Thank you to our new A marketing videographer, Gautam behind the camera. Shout out to him. Shout out to Jazeb. We'll see you in the next one.